And again, everyone plays the game differently, some can play (what I would consider) an awesome game of 3.5 and others play what I would consider a tad cheesy. The Encounter system was clearly an answer to the “5 minute workday” phenomenon, where you have a huge encounter (that takes 5 minutes of “real time”) and then having blown your spells per day, rest 8 hours, and take on the next encounter.

4E tried to make a system that encouraged and rewarded taking as many encounters in a row as possible. Was it perfect? No. There are certainly many flaws (although 4E has already heavily edited itself with errata. 4E today is as different from when it released as 3.5 was from 3E). But it was an interesting and novel approach to the 5 Minute Workday problem.

My main issue with Spells vs Feats is that the classes are still heavily imbalanced in favor of Spell classes.

Clearly (to me at least) the 4E design team specifically addressed this type of behavior through the use of metagame controls, such as Healing Surges and Magic Item use rules. Although the Magic Item use rules have already been heavily changed from the initial release since they were widely unpopular, allowing for more variety and usefulness of magic items.

Again, I am not Anti-Pathfinder, but for me a lot of the reasons why I walked away from 3.5 were answered by 4E. The great imbalances between casters and melee as you moved through the levels, the “sweet spot” in leveling, etc. These may not be problems for you at all.

That is not to say I hold 4E as perfect. The move from a strategy to tactics based game has also made it more miniatures dependent than I like, but still find acceptable. The (further) abstraction of certain rules (because even old editions abstracted concepts like HP) has muddied a few things as well.

To tell you the truth I would be interested in hearing as why you think potions and scrolls are an abuse and seems forced so that i can think about it myself?

and thx for a quick and calm response btw (my own was a bit over the top)

However, to answer your question, I do not like the “scrolls and potions” abuse (in my opinion) because it seems forced and silly. I am sort of a low/mid magic fan. The idea of groups (over)using large numbers of scrolls and potions rankles my sensibilities.

When you watch a Sword and Sorcery movie, are the heroes lugging around a library of scrolls and two cases of potions? No. In my mind, 4E is closer to “cinematic action.” Older editions/Pathfinder are more simulations that are fun as well, but you’d never see in a dramatic depiction.

As for “No more awesome i can actually do stuff in this ”world” by using spells abillities and planning an infiltration building a castle defending one or simply assaulting an organisation (evil or not) while being well prepared” you can actually do that in 4E just as well as you can in any other edition. Roleplay isn’t hampered by 4E nor is ingenuity. It is just done differently.

personally for me 4′th ed is D&D copying mmo’s.
that’s good for some people that actually like no Challenge at all, other than ofc using the encounter abilities and whatever you have as your expectedt to…
you get your role as a healer tank controller or dps. much like any mmorpg and then play it, and that’s all you do. No more awesome i can actually do stuff in this ”world” by using spells abillities and planning an infiltration building a castle defending one or simply assaulting an organisation (evil or not) while being well prepared.

and sorry to ask but is not using gallons of potions and scrolls a good thing? tell me if you were in war and attacked an outpost is bringing tanks and bombers and all that a bad thing instead of fx. just sending soldiers to deal with that by using their apparent awesomeness that’s going to bring them death? Wouldn’t you plan not to hit those soldiers with napalm or other bombs, wouldn’t you cast a grenade in an attempt to take down a group of enemies?
if so then why do you rather want a hero not getting these things to boost their chances of survival? Isn’t that just pure greed to get an item that you can use forever…
personally i’m playing as a gm and my players would die quickly if they never used a potion or scroll, and in the end it’s a part of their resources they are using it’s limited they won’t appear with gallons of potions but pairs of them the same for scrolls.

now for me pathfinder is the real new D&D I just wanted to say that, so for all those who like 4′th ed good for you, but for me that’s not role playing.
And please don’t get to offended, of course I made it a bit too black and white it’s not like i’m saying 4th ed is wow.

that said pathfinder has that familiar “old school” gameplay feeling from 3e. guess its more of a familiarity thing with the game mechanic. i find pathfinder more simple to play. not rules wise, but gameplay wise.

both games have their kinks/rough spots, but what i might not like about 4e someone else might love! both games will have rules you hate and others you love. same with pathfinder. same with any game.

either way its still just a game. rule of thumb: if you dont have fun. dont play.

P.S. sales are sales, they dont sway my gameplay in the slightest.

-player 1

They designed the system around Combat Encounters. They wanted to make it so that you would NOT have Strategic and Tactical decisions at odds. So for example, a Wizard should (under the 4E Paradigm) never have to choose between Knock and Web, or Comprehend Languages and Magic Missile.

So they moved everything magic that wasn’t for Combat into a new classification.