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	<title>RPG Digest &#187; World of Darkness</title>
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		<title>What I Learned from Gen Con 2008 &#8211; Part 2</title>
		<link>http://rpgdigest.com/2008/08/21/what-i-learned-from-gen-con-2008-part-2/</link>
		<comments>http://rpgdigest.com/2008/08/21/what-i-learned-from-gen-con-2008-part-2/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Dungeons and Dragons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[World of Darkness]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[D&D]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[vampire]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[white wolf]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rpgdigest.com/?p=247</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Last time, I offered a few observations on Gen Con 2008. Today, I want to continue that theme, but focus in a bit on the RPG side of things. I want to tell you what Gen Con did for me, in terms of my approach to gaming. Back in March, I wrote about The 4E [...]]]></description>
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<p>Last time, I offered a few <a title="Gen Con 2008" href="http://rpgdigest.com/2008/08/19/what-i-learned-from-gen-con-2008-part-1/" target="_self">observations on Gen Con 2008</a>. Today, I want to continue that theme, but focus in a bit on the RPG side of things. I want to tell you what Gen Con did for me, in terms of my approach to gaming.</p>
<p>Back in March, I wrote about <a rel="bookmark" href="../2008/03/10/the-4e-malaise/">The 4E Malaise</a>, and how things have changed for our group, gaming-wise, over the last year or two. I also wrote about my <a rel="bookmark" href="../2008/06/28/thoughts-on-dd-4e-round-two/">Thoughts on D&amp;D 4E</a>, and offered some thoughts from our group&#8217;s other DM on the topic, as well.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been at a crossroads, for a while, in terms of my game, and what my next campaign would be. That&#8217;s been due, in part, to the 4E announcement. Or so I thought.</p>
<p>My assumption going into Gen Con was that I&#8217;d come out with a clearer picture of where I wanted to go, in terms of our group&#8217;s game. Would I stay with D&amp;D, or would I go backwards to 3.5? Would I cave to peer pressure and go with Pathfinder?</p>
<p>I discovered, however, that there are no easy answers. I was looking for something that I&#8217;ll never find. I was looking for an experience to define who I am as a gamer these days. Gen Con can&#8217;t do that for me.</p>
<p>In fact, no one else can do that for me.</p>
<p>You see, I&#8217;m having a gamer mid-life crisis. I haven&#8217;t run a regular campaign in a year and a half. And many of our local gaming group are in the same funk. Not all of it can be blamed on 4E, either. We&#8217;ve had folks move away, we&#8217;ve had career changes, we&#8217;ve had all sorts of lifestyle disruptions. Whatever the reasons, it&#8217;s happening to all of us.</p>
<p>I want to play an RPG, to be sure. I want to play something that is more than hack-and-slash. I wan an immersive game where my players get majorly geeked about playing. I want something that&#8217;s role-play intensive, with rich character histories and plenty of intrigue.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure if that can happen in D&amp;D anymore.</p>
<p>Now, I&#8217;m not blaming the system. I&#8217;ve always said that rules can do very little to encourage roleplaying, and I still believe that. But our group dynamic has gone all screwy. One of my players is so anti-4E that he actually told the guys at Paizo &#8220;I hope Pathfinder puts WotC out of business.&#8221; That&#8217;s hatred, plain and simple. And, while he&#8217;s entitled to his opinion, it creates this cloud over any discussion of a 4E game.</p>
<p>Even if I were to stay with the outdated 3.5 system, there are problems. We are all creatures of habit. I believe a 3.5 game would lead us into old patterns, where players are min-maxing and finding infinte combos, and I&#8217;m struggling to keep up and find anything that&#8217;s a real challenge.</p>
<p>Add this to the mix: I asked a couple of my local guys who were at the con this question: &#8220;What game would you play if it were up to you?&#8221; One answered, &#8220;probably something by White Wolf.&#8221; The other said, &#8220;I don&#8217;t know. Maybe Vampire.&#8221;</p>
<ul>
<li>So, what to do? I&#8217;ve had to ask myself the tough questions. Here are some of them, in no particular order:</li>
<li>Am I willing to give up gaming altogether?</li>
<li>Am I willing to run another system?</li>
<li>Is there a better game than D&amp;D?</li>
<li>Can I pull off something big, like a new Mind&#8217;s Eye Theater troupe?</li>
<li>Am I better off sticking with some flavor of D&amp;D, because it&#8217;s comfortable to me and to my players?</li>
</ul>
<p>Gen Con answered a couple of those questions for me. I&#8217;m not willing to give up gaming, I know that for certain now. I&#8217;m also willing to run something other than D&amp;D. Based on my interest level and that of my players, it sounds like Vampire would be the way to go. I do have at least one player who won&#8217;t play anything that&#8217;s not D&amp;D, but there&#8217;s no game right now that I can get everyone to agree to. I&#8217;m going to lose someone no matter what.</p>
<p>So, I guess the only question I really have left is this: do I do live action or do I do tabletop?</p>
<p>The more I think about it, it probably makes sense to start with a tabletop game. If that goes well over time, maybe we could expand it into a live action game.  I&#8217;d say there&#8217;s about an 80% chance that&#8217;s exactly what I&#8217;m going to do.</p>
<p>Does this mean I&#8217;m giving up on D&amp;D? Hell no.</p>
<p>Does this mean I&#8217;ll write less about D&amp;D? Some, I&#8217;m sure. But part of the reason for the name change a few months back was just that &#8211; to open up possibilities.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m still very interested in D&amp;D and what happens to the game. My suspicion is that, after a couple of years, the dust will settle. These violent emotional responses to 4E will wane, and our group might actually consider playing the thing.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure I&#8217;ll continue to buy D&amp;D books. I want to be ready for when we come back. On top of that, I just enjoy reading them.</p>
<p>Will it be too late? Maybe. It could be that edition wars have splintered our group so severely as to put us off D&amp;D forever. I hope not. The fact of the matter is that D&amp;D is likely to be around for a long time, and I&#8217;m not ready to give it up forever.</p>
<p>Heck, I&#8217;m not entirely sure that the next game will be Vampire.</p>
<p>Ask me again in 2 weeks <img src='http://rpgdigest.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>

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		<title>Reflections on RPGs, branding and the blog name</title>
		<link>http://rpgdigest.com/2008/06/12/reflections-on-rpgs-branding-and-the-blog-name/</link>
		<comments>http://rpgdigest.com/2008/06/12/reflections-on-rpgs-branding-and-the-blog-name/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 01:39:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Dungeons and Dragons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[World of Darkness]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[rpg]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rpgdigest.com/?p=230</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good evening, all. I want to cover a few things tonight, in no particular order. First, if you don&#8217;t already get updates to RPGDigest, do it now. You can get updates via feed or via Email, and I&#8217;ll never share your addy with anyone, or send you anything except these blog updates.  Pinky swear. Next, [...]]]></description>
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<p>Good evening, all.</p>
<p>I want to cover a few things tonight, in no particular order.</p>
<p>First, if you don&#8217;t already get updates to RPGDigest, do it <strong>now</strong>. You can get updates <a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/DMsBlog">via feed</a> or <a href="http://www.feedburner.com/fb/a/emailverifySubmit?feedId=1688262&amp;loc=en_US">via Email</a>, and I&#8217;ll never share your addy with anyone, or send you anything except these blog updates.  Pinky swear.</p>
<p>Next, I want to note a slight shift in this blog. To this point, I&#8217;ve focused on Dungeons &amp; Dragons. Now, D&amp;D is my #1 RPG and always will be, but as part of the move to a new name, I felt like it was time to expand the brand a bit.  This allows me to blog about other RPGs, for example.  It also gives me opportunity to feature articles from some folks who might play other RPGs or who play older versions of D&amp;D.</p>
<p>I might even talk about a <a title="Escaping Reality" href="http://www.escapingreality.ca" target="_self">play by post World of Darkness game</a>, from time to time.</p>
<p>Hence the &#8220;RPG&#8221; portion of the new name.</p>
<p>Not to worry; there will still be plenty of good ol&#8217; D&amp;D.  I promise.  After all, it&#8217;s the game that&#8217;s been <a title="D&amp;D - Kicking butt for 40 years" href="http://rpgdigest.com/2008/05/09/dd-still-kicking-ass-after-forty-years/" target="_self">kicking so much ass for so long</a>.</p>
<p>I want to thank everyone who put in an entry for the contest, too.  You all made it hard, <em>damn hard</em>, to decide.</p>
<p>In the end, I narrowed it down to four:</p>
<ul>
<li>RPGDigest (the winner, obviously, contributed by InShaneee)</li>
<li>DnD4Ever (contributed by Ericc)</li>
<li>RPGRenaissance (contributed by <a title="Capturing Fantasy" href="http://www.capturingfantasy.com" target="_self">James of Capturing Fantasy</a>)</li>
<li>and RPG-Journey (contributed by&#8230; no one.  It was a last minute entry by me, to try to keep things branded similarly to my writing blog &#8211; <a title="The Writing Journey" href="http://www.writing-journey.com" target="_self">Writing Journey</a>).</li>
</ul>
<p>DND4Ever was cool &#8211; it even had 4E in it.  However, I wanted to keep my options open just in case 4E were to flop.</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t feel like RPG-Journey would be fair to everyone who worked so hard to come up with ideas.  Plus, I couldn&#8217;t really pin down the value of sharing a brand with my writing blog (though I&#8217;m sure there is one).</p>
<p>I like the <em>sound </em>of RPGRenaissance, but it&#8217;s damned hard to spell.  I just figured it out last week. It wouldn&#8217;t have done well for me to not known how to spell my own blog, would it?</p>
<p>Here were some of my other favorites, in no particular order:</p>
<ul>
<li>angrygoblinhorde from <a title="Greywulf's Lair" href="http://home.greywulf.net/lair" target="_self">Greywulf</a></li>
<li>ParagonGamer from Nate-Ball</li>
<li>TenRanksDM from Arceo</li>
<li>RoleForInitiative from Patriarch917</li>
<li>NoHorsesinDND, Boccobsblessedblog, and mordysfaithfulwatchblog from Nevyn</li>
<li>dispelignorance from <a href="http://criticalanklebites.com/" target="_self">Graham</a></li>
<li>how-i-role from <a href="http://www.geeksdreamgirl.com/" target="_self">Geek&#8217;s Dream Girl</a></li>
<li>RPGDungeonDragonDnD from <a href="http://www.latorra.org/" target="_self">Sage</a></li>
<li>blogofscrying from Noctambulist</li>
<li>fromthedragonsmouth from <a href="http://www.kameronmf.com" target="_self">Kameron</a></li>
<li>LettersFromHommlet from <a href="http://sagagamers.com/" target="_self">Thomas D</a></li>
<li>DnDlicious from Shekaka67</li>
<li>tavernpostings, attackingthedarkness, and undergroundadventuringsitesandflyingreptilianbeasts.com from Colin</li>
</ul>
<p>So, there you have it.  Again, many thanks to all that participated.</p>

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		<title>Interview with Harrison McLeod of Escaping Reality</title>
		<link>http://rpgdigest.com/2008/06/02/interview-with-harrison-mcleod-of-escaping-reality/</link>
		<comments>http://rpgdigest.com/2008/06/02/interview-with-harrison-mcleod-of-escaping-reality/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 10:00:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[World of Darkness]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Good Role Playing]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[nwod]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[play by post]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[roleplaying]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[rpg]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dndreviews.com/?p=212</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Harrison McLeod (Harry) is a good friend and colleague, and one half of the Men with Pens team. I had a chance to spend some time talking to Harry about their latest project, a double-whammy initiative including the creative fiction writing site Capturing Fantasy and the game site, Escaping Reality. Tell me a little bit [...]]]></description>
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<p><a title="Noche de luna llena - Full moon night" href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/11599314@N00/677786684/" target="_blank"><img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1035/677786684_ca7686fedb_m.jpg" border="0" alt="Noche de luna llena - Full moon night" /></a></p>
<p><small><a title="Attribution License" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/" target="_blank"><br />
</a></small><em>Harrison McLeod (Harry) is a good friend and colleague, and one half of the <a title="Men with Pens" href="http://www.menwithpens.ca" target="_self">Men with Pens</a> team.  I had a chance to spend some time talking to Harry about their latest project, a double-whammy initiative including the creative fiction writing site <a title="Capturing Fantasy" href="http://capturingfantasy.com/" target="_self">Capturing Fantasy</a> and the game site, <a href="http://escapingreality.ca/" target="_self">Escaping Reality</a>. </em></p>
<p><strong>Tell me a little bit about yourself and your history with RPGs.</strong></p>
<p>I began gaming back in the early 80s. It started innocently enough; a friend of mine said some of the guys were getting together to play this new game called Dungeons and Dragons. I remember my mom saying, “Don’t get into anything weird.” Apparently, D&amp;D sounded too much like S&amp;M for Mom’s liking. I still laugh about that.</p>
<p>I rolled up a character, a basic fighter, but he had the highest charisma of the group. I found myself unanimously voted leader. There I was, clueless and leading these semi-seasoned players on one of the most memorable campaigns they ever had. I had a gift for gaming.</p>
<p>To this day, my old high school buddies still call me “Fearless Leader”.</p>
<p>I began writing down the events of each session like a story. By the time I graduated high school, I had three binders full of stories and a few illustrations, too. But gaming fell to the wayside in favor of karate and earning my college degree in illustration.</p>
<p>After a high school reunion ten years later, a close friend of mine introduced me to White Wolf&#8217;s <em>Werewolf: The Apocalypse</em>. This game was way better than D&amp;D ever was (in my mind) and I loved the whole idea of modern day werewolves.</p>
<p>In 1998, I launched my first online RPG for WtA and it ran successfully for eight years before White Wolf decided to bring about the Apocalypse. I was also a storyteller for a LARP group at GenCon for a couple of years during that time.</p>
<p>I met James on an online D&amp;D RPG during the last few years of my online game. We hit it off and after gaming together for a few years more we went into business together. Neither of us wanted to give up gaming, but we had work to do.</p>
<p>We always hoped that one day we’d be gaming again.</p>
<p><strong>I hear that over and over again.  Folks that take a few years off, sometimes as much as a decade, always wind up playing again.  For my part, I think I&#8217;ll <a title="Will You Always Play DnD" href="http://www.dndreviews.com/2008/03/16/will-you-always-play-dnd/" target="_self">always be playing RPGs</a>.<br />
</strong></p>
<p><strong>What&#8217;s your favorite game system, and why?</strong></p>
<p>I’m a die-hard<em> new World of Darkness</em> fan. <span> </span>I know many people are still stuck on the original version of WoD, but I absolutely love the new version.</p>
<p>The nWoD takes the everyday and ordinary and twists it up. It’s horror in the old-fashioned sense. I’ve always admired the old horror movies, where the scenes played tricks on your mind. Hitchcock was a master and more contemporary versions would be Stephen King or M. Night Shamylan.</p>
<p>Another thing I like about nWoD is there is no clear-cut line between good and bad. You can’t tell the good guys from the bad guys, and the bad guys are just guys with their own agenda, one that doesn’t necessarily agree with the good guys.</p>
<p>In Forsaken (the new version of Werewolf: The Apocalypse), the good look no different from the evil. Both are what they are and only your point of view determines whether they’re good or bad. Shades of gray are everywhere.</p>
<p>Some people dislike nWoD because there&#8217;s no epic behind the scenes. They’re lost without the mega-plot unfolding in the background.  I’ve never been one for mega-plot, or any other kind of plot for that matter. The source books for nWoD give you ideas and you run with them. The new system allows for freedom that is more creative.</p>
<p><strong>I never had the opportunity to play too much in the old system, but I have to agree:  from what I can tell, the nWoD really takes the game to a new level.</strong></p>
<p><strong>What are your thoughts (if any) on the new release of Dungeons &amp; Dragons?</strong></p>
<p>Honestly, I’ll probably never pick up another D&amp;D book. A couple of years ago, I got back into it with a few friends from work and it was okay. But after being out of D&amp;D for a good 20 years or so, I was lost with all the changes.</p>
<p>Maybe it was just the mindset of our group, but I find that D&amp;D characters are too disposable. Every week, someone was rolling up a new one because some new class came out that he just had to have. True role-playing hardly happens in these games.</p>
<p><strong>For me, it depends a lot on the DM, though.  My games tend to be pretty role-playing intensive, but that&#8217;s taken time to evolve.</strong></p>
<p><strong>So, Tell me a little bit about this project you and James (your partner at Men with Pens) have developed.</strong></p>
<p><a title="Capturing Fantasy" href="http://www.capturingfantasy.com" target="_self">Capturing Fantasy</a> and <a title="Escaping Reality" href="http://escapingreality.ca/" target="_self">Escaping reality</a> are projects we have had in the works for a while. We love gaming and always will, but gaming doesn’t pay the bills. Then James came up with the perfect plan.</p>
<p>We found an audience in the very community our business blog speaks to and the fiction writers that also visit our blog. Many people are closet fiction writers as well. We were for a long time.</p>
<p>The response has been amazing. Our new game style introduced with blogging and into a non-traditional niche proved to be a breath of fresh air for everyone. Our site combines solid writing skills and techniques for fiction writers with the fun of creative role-playing and gaming.</p>
<p>The players, all of them writers, learn how to build and develop characters to be better novelists. They can practice their fiction writing – and have fun at the same time.</p>
<p><strong>What makes your game different from any other play-by-post game?</strong></p>
<p>Escaping Reality is more than just a game. It’s a game built by writers for writers. It&#8217;s a game built by adults for adults. We have a lot of fun, but serious business underlies everything. Our game is designed to help writers improve their skills, not just amuse themselves in a relaxing and exciting environment.</p>
<p>We challenge people to come up with great character concepts. We&#8217;ll make them think and stretch their creativity beyond what they believe they can do – because we know they can do more. We make writers push themselves beyond their comfort zones.</p>
<p>Everyone gets a good amount of personal attention and a chance to use this opportunity to be a better writer. That&#8217;s something you won’t find on most other game boards.</p>
<p><strong>&#8220;By writers, for writers.&#8221;  I like that.  Fiction has never been my strong point, which is, in part, why I&#8217;m playing at Escaping Reality.   Tell me some more about that part of it.  How can Role-playing Games help with creative writing, and vice versa?</strong></p>
<p>Role-playing games help creative writing in a number of ways. In an online game, you have to write every day, often several times a day. I think between 1998 and 2007, I wrote the equivalent of a chapter or two each day.</p>
<p>The more you write, the better you get. I look back at my old posts sometimes and shake my head in disbelief.  Practice makes perfect.</p>
<p>Another advantage is learning through observation of how others write. What makes their work shine? How do they snag interest? Seeing the way other people write and how they use words gives you new ways of writing.</p>
<p>The interaction with other writers also makes you improve – with an audience, we tend to put our best foot forward. You also get instant feedback on what you write, as other players and characters react, so you can observe what you did and how readers perceive it.</p>
<p>If you really want the scoop on what role-playing can do for your creative writing, go download our e-book, <a href="http://capturingfantasy.com/rpg-ebooks" target="_blank">How To Get What You Want Out of Role-Playing</a> We tell you everything our game gives you and we tell you how to get a jump start to be involved in our game.</p>
<p><strong>Is there still time for my readers join the game?</strong></p>
<p>Sure! There’s plenty of time, but don’t wait too long. Places are limited and when we reach the cap, the game closes to new submissions until new slots open up.</p>
<p>To submit a character for consideration, just write out a concept with a detailed history and biography in a Word document and <a title="Escaping Reality" href="http://escapingreality.ca/contact" target="_self">send it to us</a>.</p>
<p><strong>Very cool, Harry.  I know that one of my community, Ixian/Scott C has already joined.  I look forward to seeing some more familiar faces!  Thank you so much for your time.</strong></p>
<p><small><a title="Attribution License" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.dndreviews.com/wp-content/plugins/photo-dropper/images/cc.png" border="0" alt="Creative Commons License" width="16" height="16" align="absmiddle" /></a> <a href="http://www.photodropper.com/photos/" target="_blank">photo</a> credit: <a title="*L*u*z*a*" href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/11599314@N00/677786684/" target="_blank">*L*u*z*a*</a></small></p>

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		<title>Free World of Darkness Books</title>
		<link>http://rpgdigest.com/2008/05/28/free-world-of-darkness-books/</link>
		<comments>http://rpgdigest.com/2008/05/28/free-world-of-darkness-books/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 13:13:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[World of Darkness]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[play by post]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[rpg]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[vampire]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[wod]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dndreviews.com/?p=210</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hiya everyone, Things are bustling work-wise this week.  I even had to skip my golf game last night.  I&#8217;m thoroughly bummed. At any rate, my playtest of Keep on the Shadowfell won&#8217;t happen until this weekend, so it&#8217;ll be next Monday or so before I have it for you. I&#8217;ve got an interesting idea for a [...]]]></description>
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<p><a title="Un loup au Parc Omega / A Wolf At The Omega Park" href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/59468914@N00/173105083/" target="_blank"><img src="http://farm1.static.flickr.com/75/173105083_ef40ae6ffd_m.jpg" border="0" alt="Un loup au Parc Omega / A Wolf At The Omega Park" /></a><br />
Hiya everyone,</p>
<p>Things are bustling work-wise this week.  I even had to skip my golf game last night.  I&#8217;m thoroughly bummed.</p>
<p>At any rate, my playtest of Keep on the Shadowfell won&#8217;t happen until this weekend, so it&#8217;ll be <em>next</em> Monday or so before I have it for you.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve got an interesting idea for a post tomorrow, so come back then.  In the meantime, you should check out the new <a title="Capturing Fantasy" href="http://capturingfantasy.com/" target="_self">Capturing Fantasy</a> and <a title="Escaping Reality" href="http://escapingreality.ca/" target="_self">Escaping Reality</a> websites.  A couple of colleagues of mine are launching a new blog and play-by-post World of Darkness game, today.  The great thing about this game is that it&#8217;s run by two accomplished writers, and many of the players are writers, as well.  I&#8217;ve joined, and I&#8217;d encourage you to do the same.</p>
<p>Oh, and did I mention they&#8217;re <a title="Capturing Fantasy Launch Contest" href="http://capturingfantasy.com/enter-the-capturing-fantasty-launch-contest" target="_self">giving away $250 worth of WoD books</a>?</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a title="Attribution-NonCommercial License" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/2.0/" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.dndreviews.com/wp-content/plugins/photo-dropper/images/cc.png" border="0" alt="Creative Commons License" width="16" height="16" align="absMiddle" /></a><span style="font-size: xx-small;"> </span><a href="http://www.photodropper.com/photos/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: xx-small;">photo</span></a><span style="font-size: xx-small;"> credit: </span><a title="meantux" href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/59468914@N00/173105083/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: xx-small;">meantux</span></a></p>

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